CASE # 84: CHARLOTTE + MARTIN
(temporary photo till we do one of them funny ones we do.)
SUBMITTED BY:Charlotte - Female - ended it.
DUMPED: Martin - Male - Over it.
LENGTH OF RELATIONSHIP:11 months, 28 days.
INFO:The relationship between Martin and myself was my first and only serious relationship. He is three years older than me, and we met when I was finishing high school through mutual friends. We were friends for year and a half before we started dating, mostly because I was very timid about getting into a relationship. We spent our time long-distance, and always talked about how great it would be after the year was over and we could be in the same city. Our relationship was very intense, as we are both intense people. He is very emotionally needy, and I tend to be afraid to express my emotions. He had no other friends while we were dating, and I fought to keep mine only for the fact that I didn't want to become one of those people who have no friends other than their lover.
I am also involved in a lot of organizations, so this took up a lot of my time, whereas Martin had no friends and no hobbies, and as such was always calling and texting me and wanting me to come visit him. We probably saw each other twice a month, with one of us going to visit the other. We were very close, and very in love. The biggest problems we had were mostly due to my trouble with trusting people and with intimacy. I was hesitant to trust him fully, and as a result he was overbearing and constantly worried I was lying to him or didn't really love him etc. I did, however, trust him more than I ever have trusted anyone in my life. I also had trouble with intimacy. I guess I have a bad self esteem when it comes to my body, and whenever we tried to have sex it hurt me, physically, so we always had to stop. As well, I had some emotional scars from an incident that happened when I was little that I was never really able to open up to Martin about, even though I tried many times. I decided to end things because I was feeling very overwhelmed - we had decided to move in together and as much as I wanted to, part of me was so scared that I would ruin everything and let him down. I was also getting pushed to the edge with his constant need for my attention - which made me very stressed out because I felt as though if I could not be there for him every second he would be lost. I felt responsible for his every happiness. The tipping point came when I attended a conference for a few days and he was upset that I would be unable to talk while I was there. I did call him a few times to check in, but then told him I would be busy for the rest of the night and asked him not to call because I'd be busy. He called my cell but I didn't answer, so he looked up the hotel I was staying at and called me in my room. One of the guys who was there (we were having a de-brief) picked it up, and Martin assumed the worst. When I got back from the conference I decided that things should end. He was devastated and begged me not to leave, but I was determined that things had to change.
I never stopped loving Martin. It's been 6 months and I still love him. He has become such a better, more whole person in that time. He has many interests, and friends, and has even moved on and been with other girls. Oh yes, Martin and I still live together. We signed the lease before we broke up, and decided that we could move in as friends because it would be too much of a hassle to get out of the lease.
I haven't been able to move on in this time. I don't think I want to. Martin says that part of him still loves me, but he is not in love with me. The following e-mails were exchanged over Christmas when we both went home to our respective families. Just before I left for my familys house, I told Martin that I still had feelings for him and missed him. He told me that he was not interested in getting back together, and that he was happy with his new girl, Emily. I was devastated, but decided that I would move on and let him be happy. This email was sent to me out of the blue a few days after Christmas.
I hope you are having a good break. It must be nice to have some people to hang out with again and not have to be so alone all the time. I was cleaning out my inbox and I came back across your messages from that one day when you seemed really upset and I couldn't help but feel bad again.
I hate that you're so miserable and especially that living with me has contributed to it. I wish I had made more time to spend with you, but I really just didn't know how to be around you after everything that happened. You really did hurt me and I really did believe by the end that you never had really loved me, nor had any interest in being friends.
At first things were just awkward because of that, I felt like you wanted a friendship you had no right to. You always were asking me to help you and be there for you, but you had never been for me, and I was still really hurt over how you had treated me. Then you just always seemed to still be upset and I felt as if you wanted me to still be your boyfriend, but you didn't want a relationship or to even have to treat me as a friend, you just basically wanted it as a service.
Then, when you got sad and it seemed like maybe I was wrong and you just acted like that because you didn't know what else to do, I didn't know how to respond. I want to be friends, but whenever I'm around you you get awkward and speak so infrequently and so quietly that it seems utterly pointless. I admit I get awkward to, but it's only because I still feel like you hate me, have gossiped about me, and blame me for a lot of things. Also, because I am still attracted to you and part of my still loves you and always will, I just really know that we can't be in a relationship together. It hasn't been enough time, you are too unstable with school and life, and it isn't a good idea while we live together.
This is a rather futile email, I just wanted to tell you, because I feel like sometimes you maybe have low self-confidence. I still think you're beautiful and I still very much like you. You misinterpret me, I haven't changed that much, I'm just in a very different stage of my life than you are. A lot of my going out and stuff isn't because it's my heart's desire, but it just gets me through the days with the least difficulty. I enjoy it sometimes, but a lot of it is just trying to network a bit so I don't end up completely alone when I leave. I guess maybe my being a poor friend has partially been because I do feel like there is the possibility of us getting back together at some point and it's the only way I know how to make sure it isn't until you'd really be ready.
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I don't not care about you or like you. There have been so many times I've wanted to hug you, as friends. Also, I know you may not feel it, but our awkward sexual relationship still really plays a role in my feelings towards our relationship. It really put a barrier between us for me and I just couldn't deal with that again, it was too hard. Not necessarily the lack of sex, but the lack of intimacy. I don't know, it's hard for me to be friends with all of it, the unfinished feeling of it. I still am attracted to you and I guess I just feel like if we'd ever been able to, even now, there would have just been an amazing comfort and intimacy between us.
I wish we could have been more open and now too. I really did feel connected to you and one of the biggest regrets of my life is that we didn't turn out the way I pictured us, both as a couple and as friends afterwards. I've been really unclear, but what I meant by all of it (so you can go back and decode, haha) is that at first it was the past, but now or at least recently is has just been that some sort of sexual tension and desire for a deeper friendship you've never seemed interested in kept me from feeling comfortable. I've always felt rejected. If not as your boyfriend, then as not good enough to be the friend I wanted to be. I just always saw us as being really close after we split up. I really didn't see a sexual relationship existing, I thought we would find other intimacy and then as we drifted apart I guess I leaned towards a friendship that had that (as I mentioned to you that night you texted me), because I guess I just felt like whatever relationship we had, even as friends was always going to still include that. It would be impossible to deny that I'm attracted to you and I felt like you were saying the same thing to me that night. Yet, I felt like we both realized that a relationship in the sense we had in the past didn't make sense. What I thought would be best for both of us was a friendship that didn't deny that. I know I sound like I'm proposing something, I'm not, I mean I did then so I guess it's always out there, but I feel like I was unclear so I wanted to make sure you understood because maybe somewhere in all of this you will find answers to some of your questions?
I'm going to wrap this up, I could explain forever. However, just know that you shouldn't feel like I'm so inaccessible. The only thing I haven't wanted was to start back where we were or really do anything that implied a "relationship", because I think we both know that even if we were to be really good friends that bordered on it in every way, it still wouldn't be best, our lives don't allow it, somehow that border just changes everything and becomes unbelievably stressful. It still pains me to think of you with someone else and I couldn't be more sorry for my mistakes in that regard. But, it just isn't the best idea and I hope that all of this makes some sense.
I'm sorry, this is ridiculously long and so unclear that it's probably going to come across completely opposite of the intention, but I really just don't want you to be sad or so uncomfortable with me. I wish you would talk to me, be my friend, let me be yours and somehow we could find a way together to become comfortable with each other...
Miss you in my life,
Looks like I just missed you, I just got home a few minutes after you sent that.
I'm very tired, and don't know if I will be able to write this email clearly so I will try. I really wish for once we could talk in real life. That's probably part of what makes it hard / awkward for us to try to be friends, because we're not used to ever talking in real life, last year because of the distance it was always e-mails.
Anyways. Thanks for your e-mail, it was really nice. It's been nice the past few days when you've messaged me just to say hi, that's the kind of thing I mean when I want to be friends.
I think I can be less miserable when I return from break. I'm sure a lot of it was just the stress of school and my decisions with transferring and such adding on to the emotional stress of missing you - which I was not expecting at all - and being hurt by how quickly you moved on. I know I seemed really upset in some of those e-mails and like I wanted to get back together, but that's not really what I want. I might want some parts of last year back, but I know that it's not a good idea right now. I just want your friendship back, and I do really want us to be the close friends that you thought we would be.
I'm sorry if I ruined that by being so distant and cold earlier this year. I was just...mad isn't really the right word, but I had frustrations with you and I wanted to try to break our connection to make sure that we didn't slip back into what we were last year. It was a terrible way of doing it and I'm sorry. I was a bit mad at you as well, because I didn't break up because I stopped loving you, it was because you made it impossible to do and I was mad because I wanted to but it got too hard. (I'm not trying to blame you for everything, I know I made it impossible as well, but from my view I didn't see that, I just saw you making it impossible.) I was mad because you didn't trust me, and thought that I cheated on you or was interested in someone else or was flirting with someone else. I can honestly tell you that none f those were ever the case.
Another reason why I wanted to split up was because for some reason, which you will have noticed in me not talking to you really ever, especially when we were together with other people, you made me diffrent - quieter, kind of stifled. I know that of course this was not your intention or fault at all, it just for some reason was what happened. I think maybe it was just me not being ready for a relationship - feeling like I had to be part of one whole (you and I) when I couldn't even be my own whole. I felt like I was losing my individual self in that - or maybe it was that I was afraid that I would lose it, so in order not to do that, instead of joining with you as one I just stayed quiet and solitary to remain my own. But instead was not my own self or part of your whole. This doesn't make much sense, I am thinking as I write.
I'm sorry, this is turning long-winded and losing a point. I just wanted to tel you these things because I feel like explaining why I acted the way I did might help us become friends. I handled things very badly in June and since then, I apologize to you for that. Maybe in June I didn't want to be friends. Or maybe I was jut too mad to think about it. I never thought I would miss you this much or be hurt when you found someone else. Truth is actually, I wasn't expecting you to find someone else so fast. Or at all really I guess.
Anyways... try to wrap up. It's not that I want you back as we were before. I don't want you to be 'mine' and I'm not jealous or anything, I think it's nice you are finding other people to be intimate with. I think if we could be friends I would be able to be completely happy to see you with someone else because we would still have a close connection and I'd know you still cared about me and would be able to be contented in knowing that although a lot of it has changed, everything you said to me last year didn't turn out to be completely conditional.
I feel like we both want the same thing. We just don't know how to do it. We have to talk I think, in person, to help us stop being awkward. I would love a hug from you, just as a friendly comfort. I have friends here being back home, and I'm having fun, but they're not like me, they don't see things the way I do or even understand how I see them at all. You do more than anyone and I know that it would relax and comfort me just to be able to be close to you again.
I'm so sorry for the way I have treated you - since we split up, and also while we were dating. A lot of it I know was because I was/am defensive about becoming too dependant or involved in a relationship and it;s not an excuse, but know that it wasn't out of malice, ill feelings towards you, or ignorance. I couldn't deal properly so I took it out on you, all while you were nothing but kind and loving to me. I don't blame you for anything that happened - it was the result of a conglomeration of circumstnces and no one's fault in particular.
I don't even know if I have said much at all in this e-mail. I've just tried to explain anything that might explain something tat could help us both feel better about the past and allow us to become friends.
Sorry I'm a bad communicator.
(He instant messaged me as I was finishing that e-mail)
Martin says: (2:40:39 AM) Did you get my email?
Charlotte says: (2:41:16 AM) yeah
Charlote says: (2:41:38 AM) I wrote you a reply but it's ridiculously long and ill organized
Martin says: (2:41:50 AM) that's ok
Martin says: (2:42:25 AM) I'm sorry I emailed you, I just don't know how to talk to you anymore, I feel like I make you uncomfortable so it just seemed best
Martin says: (2:43:29 AM)like you still have to defend yourself to me, which is probably my fault, because I got so frustrated trying to get close to you that I caused that
Martin says: (2:43:41 AM) that's the one thing I forgot to say in the email
Martin says: (2:44:17 AM)I realize that I caused us to lose trust in each other, me in your honesty and you in my reaction/thoughts, but it was never really what it seemed
Charlotte says: (2:44:24 AM) should i send it to you anyways?
Martin says: (2:45:02 AM)I think it came out as jealousy sometimes, but not because I didn't trust you, but because I didn't know how to feel thinking that you could be things I wanted for us with everyone but me
Martin says: (2:45:12 AM) Up to you, I'll certainly read it
Martin says: (2:45:51 AM) and it made you feel like you had to defend yourself to me all the time or that I wanted you to act a certain way or refrain from certain things
Charlotte says: (2:46:04 AM) ill send it because i think some of its important
Martin says: (2:47:01 AM) and I've told you so many times it wasn't true, and I never had this problem with anyone else, and it was because I didn't realize I was doing it because the root of it wasn't that I was jealous or that I thought you really would cheat on me or not love me or whatever, but because I didn't know how to get you to open up to connecting with me
Martin says: (2:47:03 AM) we never did, we had a great friendship, that turned into a bad relationship, and there is no way to even begin to figure out where or how what moment that happened in
Martin says: (2:48:50 AM)It just did...and I just wanted you to know that it wasn't that I didn't accept you or that I didn't trust you...it was that I felt extremely distant from you and abnormally so and it just metastacized into all these feelings that I had no idea how to handle
Martin says: (2:49:09 AM)That was the first time in my life I ever had someone act that way towards me and it still is
Martin says: (2:50:28 AM) and I also wanted to say that I completely understand the pain or whatever you want to call it that my appearing to have changed so much would cause you ebacuse that was a huge part of it, you always seemed so different with everyone else and that just killed me because I felt like I was doing something wrong
Martin says: (2:50:50 AM) like you couldn't be yourself with me and it broke my heart
Charlotte says: (2:51:26 AM) I'm sorry. I think that I just loved you too much so I cared what you thought of me, but I hated that, hated that I cared so much and was so afraid
Charlotte says: (2:52:54 AM) I try to reject my emotions but it doesn't work out
Martin says: (2:53:32 AM)This is going to be extremely arrogant sounding, but it responds to your comment about moving on and why I was so upset that you wouldn't get close to me, but I've never had trouble finding someone interested in me...
Martin says: (2:54:25 AM) I really haven't...I am the first to admit I have a lot of faults, but I also think that when it comes to someone to be in a relationship with I have a lot of things that make me great at it and it was super hard to feel so rejected
Martin says: (2:55:04 AM) and it's also a curse because I have moved on, maybe even too fast, I didn't mean to be the way I was all fall and I'm ashamed of a lot of it to be hoenst, but it was hard to all of a sudden be wanted again
Martin says: (2:55:35 AM) especially having been rejected sexually for over a year..and that isn't a snide remark at all, it's just the truth
Martin says: (2:56:53 AM)Is that upsetting?
Charlotte says: (2:57:08 AM) no, I understand. I just wasn't expecting you to move on like that, thats why it was upsetting
Martin says: (2:57:31 AM) I mean, it could be partly that I play it safe, but you're the only girl who has ever rejected me in any way...even the ones that cheated on me still wanted me back..
Charlotte says: (2:57:31 AM) because I wasn't mentally prepared for it, because I never once in our whole relationship felt like you were interested in anyone else, so it was weird when you were, even though we broke up
Martin says: (2:58:09 AM)I never was
Martin says: (2:58:36 AM) I remember working really hard to look like I was before we started dating so it wouldn't be so obvious I liked you, haha
Martin says: (2:59:36 AM) but for a year and a half it was you every day and for that entire time, even after we started dating, first with you wanting it to be a secret and then with you getting really distant and never wanting to be intimate with me physically or emotionally, I felt rejected every day and I had no idea how to deal with that
Martin says: (3:00:24 AM) by the end I felt like you'd only dated me to try it out and gotten stuck with it for longer than you wanted to and when I thought back I could see that even before last Christmas you probably wanted out, (I know that's not necessarily the case, but thats how I felt in the summer)
Charlotte says: (3:01:47 AM) i'm sorry
Martin says: (3:01:58 AM) I just finished your email
Martin says: (3:02:35 AM) For the record, I didn't think you cheated on me until after you broke up with me..and it was only because it happened so suddenly without explanation, it felt like you were doing it out of guilt
Martin says: (3:04:01 AM) I think that a lot of those jealous feelings were just trying to get a reaction out of you, find out what it was that was missing that made you so distant
Martin says: (3:05:30 AM) and yes, your small lies...we're different about that...I hated that you lied to me, because it made me feel like an awful boyfriend that you felt like you had to and it made me feel like when something bigger happened you'd be even more likely to lie and that's logical...I just don't blame you though, if things had happened differently you wouldn't have felt like you had to lie
Martin says: (3:05:57 AM) and last thing...I think, haha...I did change for you last year in some ways
Martin says: (3:06:38 AM) but I don't apologize for that...or think it's a bad thing...that is part of relationships and in many ways it did make me a better person, which is a benefit of them...and yes, I've gone back to old habits and I'm perfectly happy still
Martin says: (3:07:33 AM) I changed because I felt like those things weren't core to who I was, such as drinking, on my list of priorities you came higher and by making small changes in my lifestyle I thought I'd be able to better become someone you could connect with and it was that connection that I wanted more than anything
Martin says: (3:08:25 AM) I don't know if that makes sense, but maybe it explains why in some ways I'm different now...and how I'm not really different...because you look at things that are just far to superficial, at least in my life, as major differences and I really believe that in all the ways that matter I am still very much the same person
Charlotte says: (3:09:38 AM) it's ok, I don't judge you for changing, I hate when people change for others, you should always do it for yourself. So its good you're back to real you
Martin says: (3:09:57 AM) I think we just disagree about that, because I did do it for me
Martin says: (3:10:07 AM) I did it for me because I knew I'd be happiest if we could connect
Martin says: (3:11:28 AM) I guess, when I think back to it, it maybe started when you started to open up to me that night about your past and that moment forever haunted us, neither of our faults, but we got caught, between a relationship and a friendship
Martin says: (3:12:20 AM) and for the rest of it, we just were never quite right in the way we treated each other
Martin says: (3:12:52 AM) it really has always eaten away at me that you said I was the person you felt most connected to and yet you couldn't open up to me, even more so that you started to
Martin says: (3:13:45 AM) I've never known what to do with that, and I've always been caught between feeling inadequate by not providing you with enough comfort and also worried as a friend
Martin says: (3:14:30 AM) and the longer our own relationship seemed affected by it the more I worried and the more I felt inadequate
Martin says: (3:15:19 AM) and when you broke up with me, it all felt so incomplete, for the entire time I'd looked at the moment you finally decided to open to me as the one that we'd really be able to be friends and be in a relationship
Martin says: (3:16:20 AM) on the friend side it felt like the moment I could fully trust you and believe you trusted me and on the relationship side it felt like the moment we'd be able to be intimate and move to the level of comfort we'd bordered for a year
Martin says: (3:18:02 AM) I was so depressed all summer because it kind of felt like the rejection was complete, there was no longer any chance of having that moment of physical harmony
Martin says: (3:18:27 AM) and then I started clinging to the friend side of it and you just disappeared, so I gave up on that and by the time you came back I just didn't know what to say, I felt like it was no longer possible and because of that too much had happened for us to really ever be friends, there would always be unfinished and unsaid things between us
Martin says: (3:20:33 AM) I'll let you talk now, haha
Charlotte says: (3:21:45 AM) I don't have much to say to that
Charlotte says: (3:21:56 AM) I'm jut not an open person I guess
Charlotte says: (3:22:07 AM) I never have been, not with my family, not with my friends
Charlotte says: (3:22:35 AM) even when I was like ten, I didn't trust my friends
Martin says: (3:22:47 AM) I undersatnd how that is
Martin says: (3:23:12 AM) at least somewhat
Martin says: (3:25:47 AM) I guess the thing was that I felt like if you really loved me at some point if I waited long enough you would realize that you had no choice but to trust me and open p to me rather than lose me and in the end I was hurt that you chose to stay closed off despite how hard I tried to make you feel safe
Martin says: (3:26:46 AM) I know you would have always had some secrets, but it was the physical rejection that made it impossible to let it go, I just could never understand that and it devastated me
Martin says: (3:27:08 AM) and it felt like the answer was the thing you were going to have to open up about
Charlotte says: (3:28:08 AM) I'm sorry about that
Charlotte says: (3:30:09 AM) it wasn't rejection of you, it was just that I couldn't deal with it because it was so intimate and made me so vulnerable and it felt like so much pressure and I felt like I was in over my head and would only dissapoint you
Martin says: (3:30:44 AM) I don't know, I felt like I did everything in the world to make you see that you could never disappoint me..
Martin says: (3:31:10 AM) I mean even now it feels really strange to not understand you physically or sexually or whatever after all this time
Martin says: (3:31:35 AM) If this closeness exists that you say belongs to us and nobody else in your life then I just feel so lost how that can be absent
Charlotte says: (3:32:34 AM) well it's not like i have it with anyone else either
Martin says: (3:33:17 AM) It just feels like a giant gap for us and it's the reason I can't see you with anyone else and have had a really hard time with moving on myself
Martin says: (3:34:12 AM) our relationship is over and I feel like we could be best friends and that we were meant for that maybe, but I just feel like that is a major gap and I can't help but go back to it all the time
Martin says: (3:34:38 AM) I feel like I can't even really move on with someone else in many ways, because I still think about us in that way
Charlotte says: (3:35:59 AM) I have too, and I've wanted it, but I can't do it because it' just going to be the same as before and upset you and make thing worse
Martin says: (3:37:22 AM) It's just the understanding you know? Like, we were meant to understand each other in that way and I feel so incomplete not
Martin says: (3:42:36 AM) It's kind of like how we both can't stand to not be able to think of the thing on the tip of our tongue, but obviously more serious and complicated
Martin says: (3:43:16 AM) there is a feeling of unrest in me with us never having been able to be open in that way and it isn't as if there is a really specific reason or purpose for the knowledge, it just feels like a barrier to me
Martin says: (3:43:53 AM) like why not, why couldn't you trust me, it isn't like I judge you at all, I don't ask for that reason, I wanted to just feel open with you
Martin says: (3:44:10 AM) does any of that make sense?
Charlotte says: (3:44:13 AM) yes
Charlotte says: (3:45:09 AM) and the best answer is that I don't know me, I really don't. I don't know me enough to share me with other people, because i don't know what to say
Martin says: (3:46:17 AM)I guess that's why I tried to find specific things I could ask you, I tried to find very simple things we could talk about that were still very intimate topics
Charlotte says: (3:48:10 AM) I will try to become better at talking, I promise
Martin says: (3:48:59 AM) I think that would be really nice, because it was honestly the fact that when you came back in September it felt like you wanted the exact same relationship but being broken up gave you a reason to refuse that
Martin says: (3:49:27 AM) Have you wanted to be intimate since we moved in together?
Charlotte says: (3:49:45 AM) yeah
Martin says: (3:50:21 AM) I have too and it's been hard, there were a lot of nights when I wanted to just come and crawl into bed with you, even just to feel you next to me
Charlotte says: (3:51:08 AM) you should have, it would have been nice to have company
Martin says: (3:51:27 AM) I just didn't know how you would have taken it
Charlotte says: (3:52:29 AM) I just miss your touch sometimes
Martin says: (3:54:03 AM) I know, I miss it a lot and while I don't necessarily want a relationship, and I know this sounds awkward, but again I'm trying to be open, I just wish we could have settled on something in between, even if it meant that you'd end up seeing someone else too, I didn't want to lose our intimacy, what we had of it...because even as friends it would have meant something, just to have someone you can be close to and perhaps even more without the pressure you felt
Martin says: (3:55:03 AM) I miss a lot of things, like your hand on my back, or how nice it was to feel comfortable with someone in my underwear or naked or how cute you looked in yours
Martin says: (3:56:11 AM) or how soft your hair always was
Charlotte says: (3:57:22 AM)I always miss how you used to come up from behind me when I was at the sink and hug me when i was washing dishes
Martin says: (3:57:27 AM) I remember close to the beginning of the year, you changed your shirt with the door open or downstairs or something and I remember not even thinking of you sexually, but just so...I don't even know what the word is, but comfortable and happy to have that relationship
Martin says: (3:59:32 AM) and that isn't to say that there haven't been sexually charged moments too like the other week when you were sitting on the couch as I was getting ready to leave and you were wearing jeans and they were falling down so far I could see almost all of the green thong that I got you and I had this flashback to watching you get out of my bed last year and I just wanted to kiss you
Charlotte says: (4:00:28 AM) sorry, my pants are all too big
Martin says: (4:00:43 AM) don't apologize, I like them, haha
Martin says: (4:01:16 AM) if anything it's nice to at least have those small moments
Martin says: (4:08:19 AM) You can be close with people and I'll try my best to make it as easy as possible
Martin says: (4:14:35 AM) I don't know, I guess I have just had a desire to accept the sexual element to our relationship in some way because I don't think it can really be eliminated
Martin says: (4:15:23 AM) and I understand that you may have certain ideas of what's appropriate and I respect that, but at the same time I guess I just always hoped that we would fall somewhere in the middle
Charlotte says: (4:16:01 AM) we could, except that i don't know if i can do that without getting too emotional and scared again
Charlotte says: (4:16:12 AM) and that would ruin it and upet you
Martin says: (4:16:24 AM) it wouldn't upset me, and I don't think it can be "ruined"
Charlotte says: (4:16:56 AM) yes it would because it would make it not casual, complicated, and it would make it a relationship
Charlotte says: (4:17:08 AM) or more like one
Martin says: (4:17:15 AM) We have a relationship though..
Martin says: (4:17:42 AM) of some type, it's just up to us to define it and I don't feel like that would change whether it was casual or not
Martin says: (4:18:04 AM) I don't know, I don't think you should think of it like that, because I certainly don't
Martin says: (4:19:05 AM) if it was something you wanted then I would say you should explore it and know that at least now we can be more open and talk and not have to worry about breaking up or pleasing the other, we're friends first now and in all ways that is a much stronger relationship than any other
Charlotte says: (4:19:39 AM) good
Martin says: (4:19:52 AM) nothing that happens has a consequence like it used to
Martin says: (4:20:06 AM) you don't have to worry about what you say
Martin says: (4:20:16 AM) there is no judgement or consequence
Martin says: (4:21:25 AM) I mean, if you want to come and sleep next to me
Martin says: (4:22:10 AM) or if you want to be intimate in any way, not necessarily sex, but just feel the touch then it's not something to worry about in the same way
Martin says: (4:22:17 AM) as if there will be those connotations to it
Martin says: (4:22:47 AM) but the beauty of it is that it isn't nothing either, it's safe
Martin says: (4:23:06 AM) and that goes for just sitting close on the couch watching a movie too
Charlotte says: (4:27:38 AM) I kind of wonder how many people you've actually had sex wth since we broke up, just because it surprised me that you did at all, but its not really any of my business just made me wonder
Martin says: (4:29:00 AM) not very many really, just two and both times I was very safe and, this might be too much information, but I couldn't orgasm or really enjoy it at all because I just kept thinking about you
Martin says: (4:30:47 AM) and there probably would have been none if I wasn't drunk and they hadn't come onto me..
Martin says: (4:30:54 AM) which is sad, but true
Martin says: (4:35:46 AM) we don't have the same bond that most people who live together do
Martin says: (4:37:13 AM) I feel like we live totally separately and it would be nice to do our homework in teh same room sometimes, eat together (although that's hard with our schedules) and see you change or come down for a drink without having to get dressed first
Martin says: (4:37:25 AM) The reason I wanted to live with you is beacuse I felt like we could have that
Martin says: (4:37:40 AM) of all people I know you're the only one I feel like I could have that with
Martin says: (4:38:39 AM) I know you're a little self-conscious about your body, I can tell, but I really don't want you to be at home...
Martin says: (4:38:52 AM) you have no reason to be with me, none at all
Martin says: (4:39:03 AM) my biggest problem with it is that it's all covered up too much, haha
Martin says: (4:39:34 AM) I know that sounds really sexual or whatever, and it always will have some element that is, but I didn't mean it to
Charlotte says: (4:39:44 AM) its ok
Martin says: (4:40:25 AM) Do you want to try being intimate?
Martin says: (4:40:31 AM) You implied it before
Martin says: (4:40:52 AM) you don't have to decide, but is that something you are interested in in some way
Charlotte says: (4:40:55 AM) i don't know
Charlotte says: (4:40:56 AM) yes
Charlotte says: (4:41:00 AM) but I'm just worried
Martin says: (4:41:03 AM) about?
Charlotte says: (4:41:46 AM) I don't know
Charlotte says: (4:41:53 AM) my heart?
Charlotte says: (4:42:01 AM) my mind?
Charlotte says: (4:42:09 AM) and yours
Martin says: (4:42:14 AM) I understand
Martin says: (4:42:21 AM) Well, mine will be fine
Charlotte says: (4:42:23 AM) but we can always try
Martin says: (4:42:31 AM) that's how I feel
Martin says: (4:42:54 AM) try, and talk, and try, and talk, and stop, and try a different time, when the mood hits, whatever
Martin says: (4:43:47 AM) and it doesn't have to be a specifically defined thing, I'm just saying that I'd be happy to be more than distant roommates, our friendship can be what we want it to
Charlotte says: (4:43:55 AM) I feel better knowing we can be open and honest totally now because there are no committments or consequences
Charlotte says: (4:44:19 AM) its less pressure and we don't have to worry what the other will think
Martin says: (4:44:38 AM) exactly, and you need to know that there is no way you can ever be disappointing
Martin says: (4:44:48 AM) just the sight of you is enough, haha
Martin says: (4:50:52 AM) I have this image of you, I'm not sure when it was, but you're lying on my bed with your head on my chest, I'm naked and all you're wearing is yellow underwear and I remember your smile perfectly, I always think of that and when I do it makes me wish we could still have that closeness because all those moments ended up being tainted by our issues
Martin says: (4:51:20 AM) and it would be so nice to do it and all the things we used to talk about doing when we lived together without that pressure
Charlotte says: (4:51:46 AM) yeah
Martin says: (4:52:23 AM) Do you ever think about me when you put on the underwear I gave you? I've always wondered that, because I saw when you were dong laundry that you still have it
Charlotte says: (4:52:51 AM) yeah sometimes
Charlotte says: (4:53:15 AM) it's comfy underwear, i wouldnt want to get rid of it!
Martin says: (4:53:42 AM) ahha, I just wondered, it made me happy to think that you still had it and it was still a connection between us
Martin says: (4:53:51 AM) I'm wearing the green shirt you gave me back!
Charlotte says: (4:54:41 AM) yeah thats like when you used to still have that picture of the two of us in your room, at first i thought it was weird but then i thought it was just nice to still have a conncetion
Charlotte says: (4:54:52 AM) but then you took it down and it was sad
Martin says: (4:55:33 AM) I don't know, I took it down after talking with Laura about how to get over the whole thing, but I still look at it all the time
Martin says: (4:56:06 AM) I used to like knowing which ones you were wearing, that was one of the things I depended on to feel close to you, I liked that you shared that with me
Martin says: (4:56:28 AM) and when you wouldn't put your shorts on to go to sleep
Martin says: (4:56:52 AM) you just looked so perfect and it made me feel good to think you were that comfortable with me
Martin says: (4:58:00 AM) I don't know, I just used to really like that
Martin says: (5:00:36 AM) It just broke my heart that we couldn't talk
Charlotte says: (5:01:31 AM) well people are like that. never fully honest, never able to sy what they want or mean
Charlotte says: (5:01:41 AM) because they're afraid
Martin says: (5:02:04 AM) well from now on you have no reason to be afraid
Charlotte says: (5:02:10 AM) of what will happen, who they might lose
Charlotte says: (5:02:25 AM) that's crap but a nice thought
Martin says: (5:02:45 AM) you're getting a little bitter, haha
Martin says: (5:02:58 AM) WEll nothing that could happen would make us not friends is what I meant
Charlotte says: (5:03:05 AM) yeah
Charlotte says: (5:03:19 AM) thats true
Charlotte says: (5:03:41 AM) i still dont trust people and know that they all lie all the time
Charlotte says: (5:03:59 AM) but thats ok i have accepted it as inavoidable truth
Martin says: (5:04:14 AM) well I have no reason to lie to you and every reason not to because I don't want to live in a miserable house..
Martin says: (5:04:23 AM) but believe what you want, I won't try and change your mind
Charlotte says: (5:04:48 AM) deal:)
Martin says: (5:04:59 AM) I do want a hug though
Charlotte says: (5:05:05 AM) I'm sorry, I didnt mean to get bitter
Martin says: (5:05:08 AM) it's ok
Martin says: (5:06:03 AM) I'm sorry for focusing so much on sexual things, I just have really wanted for a long time to explore that between us
Charlotte says: (5:06:16 AM) its ok
Martin says: (5:06:31 AM) You know what my favorite day was with you sexually?
Martin says: (5:06:34 AM) well one of them?
Charlotte says: (5:06:38 AM) nope
Martin says: (5:06:40 AM) guess
Charlotte says: (5:07:15 AM) um....i don't know..montreal?
Martin says: (5:07:28 AM) Nope, that day when you were sick and being a tease
Martin says: (5:07:38 AM) I've never been so turned on in my life, haha
Charlotte says: (5:07:43 AM) haha
Martin says: (5:07:53 AM) Do you have one?
Charlotte says: (5:08:23 AM) i liked christmas eve on the beach
Martin says: (5:08:43 AM) so did I actually
Martin says: (5:09:13 AM) Do you remember what you were wearing?
Charlotte says: (5:09:27 AM) nope
Martin says: (5:09:59 AM) green pants, yellow sweater, and those weird underwear with the cartoons on them
Martin says: (5:10:14 AM) I don't know why I remember that
Martin says: (5:11:02 AM) and I remember the next time we went there you were wearing a white skirt
Martin says: (5:11:30 AM) because it kept blowing up, and you were wearing a thong and geting really embarrassed about it, haha
Charlotte says: (5:13:32 AM) i wish we were home for this conversation so we could curl up next to each other and fall asleep and fix the past few months
Martin says: (5:13:43 AM) me too
Martin says: (5:13:45 AM) soon enough
Martin says: (5:15:12 AM) We should really try and have one night a week to hang out
Martin says: (5:15:35 AM) even if it's just make dinner and I promise I won't run out
Charlotte says: (5:15:47 AM) ok deal
Martin says: (5:21:25 AM) Are you in bed?
Charlotte says: (5:21:29 AM) yep
Martin says: (5:21:50 AM) I really wish I could be next to you right now, or at least see you
Martin says: (5:25:01 AM) oh my god it's 330!!!!
Charlotte says: (5:25:07 AM) /530
Martin says: (5:25:16 AM) I have to sleep, I have to get up at 8
Martin says: (5:25:35 AM) Are you ok?
Martin says: (5:25:52 AM) You seem like you've gotten a little quieter the last little bit
Martin says: (5:27:31 AM) is there anything you want to say?
Charlotte says: (5:28:18 AM) no, i just feel like this is all so opposite of what you said in some of your emails from before
Charlotte says: (5:28:56 AM) you had moved on and were happy and didn't want this at all
Martin says: (5:29:34 AM) I don't know what to say...I was wrong...I thought moving on was the answer...turned out I wasn't happy
Charlotte says: (5:29:52 AM) its alrght you dont have to explain
Martin says: (5:30:07 AM)I dont' want to get back together, I don't think we can, but I don't think I can really fully move on until we're friends and we explore that and develop it
Martin says: (5:30:14 AM) Is that alright?
Charlotte says: (5:30:19 AM) yep
Martin says: (5:30:33 AM) and I don't care what we have to do, it will not be awkward when I get back
Martin says: (5:41:59 AM) I'm happy we talked about this even though it wasn't in person, I feel like if we go through with this we'll find a great friendship and finally put to rest some of our issues
Martin says: (5:49:09 AM) well I really do need to sleep
Martin says: (5:49:18 AM) I'm sure I'll talk to you soon though
Charlotte says: (5:49:28 AM) alright
Martin says: (5:49:36 AM) everything good?
Charlotte says: (5:49:59 AM) oui
Martin says: (5:50:07 AM) have a nice sleep!
Charlotte says: (5:50:20 AM) you too
Martin says: (5:50:23 AM) night
Charlotte says: (5:50:30 AM) night
When Martin got back from holidays, I was sitting on the couch in the living room. He was tired from his flight, so we came and curled up on the couch next to me and started kissing me. I felt more right than I ever have when we were together then. I felt no self consciousness, no fear, only passion and trust and love. I felt like I finally trusted him and wanted to tell him ll the things I had never been able to.
We ended up almost having sex, but it hurt me again so we stopped. I told him I really wanted to, and he pushed me away and said that he was leaving in three months and I shouldn't. This really hurt me and felt like a huge rejection so I turned away and had to leave the room because I was too upset to stay. He came to talk to me and said it wasn't what he wanted, it had been a huge mistake and he jut wanted to forget all about it, and then he went and had a shower. I couldn't stay so I left the house for a few hours until he would be at work. A few days later one of our friends came up to visit. We were playing cards and needed a fourth and he brought over the girl that he had been seeing before the break. We talked about it later and he told me that they had lost touch over the break and so he thought she wasn't interested. This made me feel as though he only said those things to me because he was lonely and thought he had no one else, like I was a default. He said that I shouldn't think he cheated on her with me because they hadn't even slept together yet and weren't officially together. He said he wasn't going to tell her what happened because it was too meaningless to have to tell her. I don't think she knows that we used to be together, I'm not sure though. Three days after this she slept over, and in the week or so since then she's been here most mornings and now keeps a toothbrush in the bathroom, which is probably the thing that makes me the saddest. The thing that really makes me mad is that I actually like her a lot.
This man has broken my heart and confused the hell out of me. When I tried to talk to him about the things we discussed in our IM chat, he said he didn't remember what was said and that he never meant to imply that he wanted anything more than friendship. I know he didn't want a relationship back the way I did, but now he doesn't even want to be as close as he said he wanted. We don't talk, he has even less time to hang out because his new girlfriend is always around, and he has completely broken my heart and dissolved all of my trust in him.
And yet, I still pine away for him like a little fool.
I started an e-mail to him the day after we talked about the incident because I felt like I still had things to say to him. I wanted to know how he could say those things to me and not remember them, how he could use me like that and just change his mind as soon as he found someone else to fill the void. I write in it whenever I feel mad or sad at him, because I know it is futile and unfair to say it to him now. I will never send it, but write it in the hopes that it will help me feel better and possibly understand. Then I found this site, and hope maybe writing out the story here will help me.
Thanks for listening Charles and Dwayne. You're the one person I have been truly honest with through all of this.